From: Howie Jacobson <>
Subject: "You can rent Carnegie Hall" - new podcast conversation

When my guest Dorie Clark spoke those words in our podcast conversation, she was making a larger point than the fact that it is possible for anyone with enough money to rent one of the most prestigious musical venues in the world.

She wanted me to understand a few key concepts:

  1. You can create outside-the-box pathways to achieve your goals.
  2. You can go around gatekeepers and not wait for others to anoint you as "good enough."
  3. You can pool resources with others to make things happen that you couldn't achieve by yourself.

Dorie is a leadership and communication coach, author, executive educator at Duke University's business school, Broadway producer, theology student, political operative, stand-up comic, and fantastic conversationalist.

Originally, I thought we'd talk about her latest book, The Long Game: How to Be a Long-term Thinker in a Short-term World.

Which we do. But we also get into much more…

One of the charming things about Dorie is her fascination with other people. This is evident in our conversation, where she ends up interviewing me nearly as much as I interview her.

[ Watch or listen here: ]

We discuss our respective childhood sports histories, the pros and cons of being highly competitive (I was; she wasn't), and how we can balance the desire to excel with the values of a fulfilling and connected life.

Plus our shared love of religious history and what each of us learned from our studies. And how both the Gutenberg Bible and Dorie's first work in journalism were both funded by the porn industry.

I hope our freewheeling conversation inspires you to think differently and more creatively as well.

[ Watch or listen here: ]